Anti-War Vets Kicked Out Of
Tallahassee Veterans Day Parade 11-11-03 by Tom Baxter I apologize to those that loyally followed “orders,” showing up for the parade and then found the order giver, me, absent from my place of duty. Sounds to me like Bush & Co in Iraq and Afghanistan. I felt bad before. Don’t feel as bad now. Getting throw out of the parade and the following mess, looks like it is all for the best. We’re going to get some good coverage in the Democrat and Times-Union. Also, if anyone is watching news tonight, you might want to think about taping us. After Action Report Veterans Day 2003 1500 hrs 11NOV03 [news articles, photographs, legal status forthcoming.] ***** Well good things and bad things. Certainly did not go the way I thought. Filled my form out. Sent them my $10.00, showed up on time and gutless wonder the parade marshal, tells we’re not in the parade. He has gotten complaints from others and decided not to stand up for free speech or he just does not want anyone questioning the Bush dream [Nightmare for those who are paying attention.] The cop says we can walk on the sidewalk, but not on the road. We decide to split up and form a billboard on the main . We strolled along down to the Capitol and back. Resting at visible spots. Four banners were made and displayed, seen by hundreds. Maybe even on TV. Forbidden from using the streets we walked them up and down the sidewalk. Passed out leaflets. Talked with friendly folks. Four media interviews about being kicked out of the parade and why we were there in the first place. Things that went wrong: 1.
Failed to specify an exact meeting spot. We were separated in three
distinct groups, each a block or two away from each other. 2. Failed to plan what to do if we were kicked out of the parade. A fellow member asked what would happen if we were kicked out. Like George, I didn’t even think about it. Failure was not an option. Except, there’s not a couple of kilotons of human flesh left laying around when I screw up. 3. Failed to have a cell phone the day of the press release. Recommendations 1. National organizations should fax press releases to the local media. Media folks like that. 2. Contacts should have a cell phone. 3. Get everything in writing. 4. Have enough guts to let yourself get arrested. Standing Against The Fear - Veterans Day Parade HONOR THE WARRIOR - NOT THE WAR SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - BRING THEM HOME We’ll be passing out these two articles along the parade route. Charlie Liteky -http://www.mfso.org/liteky.html Paul Bucha - http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php TPD just did its job 14 Nov 2003 As a member of Veterans for Peace and a participant in our attempted participation in the Nov. 11, 2003, Tallahassee Veterans Day Parade, I feel compelled to note at least one factual error in the various stories going around. In my opinion, these stories seem to have the Tallahassee Police Dept. set up as fall guys to one degree or another. Regardless of what Mr. Ken Conroy may have said about the police wanting us out of HIS Veterans Day Parade, I saw no evidence that they did. I interacted with at least two officers. I believe their names were Officer Poole and Officer Black. They were courteous, professional, and objective. They were there to keep the peace and not take sides in any argument between us and the VFW. The VFW had the upper hand under the rule of law if not the rule of morality, and the TPD just did its job. I believe TPD would have acted the same if the roles were reversed (though of course we would have let the VFW march in OUR Veterans Day Parade if they so desired). Though the TPD had to enforce the VFW's right to eject us from the parade, my impression was that the TPD was not particularly enthusiastic about it. The officers I spoke with made sure we understood that we had the right to make our presence known on the side walks and in public spaces. They did not actively silence us. Mr. Conroy as the agent for VFW Post 3308 has complete responsibility for what happened on Tuesday. God bless America and lets pray that the VFW will someday live up to the principles it professes. Greg Brown In
response to your editorial FREE SPEECH: Wrong time and place by Tom Baxter 15 Nov 2003 I am one of the members of Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War that did not march in the Veterans Day parade in Tallahassee because Mr. Conroy failed to honor his word. He threatened to have us arrested if we enforced our contractual rights by joining the march as our contract allowed. Your editorial in error said, “It was not a forum for political issues.” In fact, political candidates and officials were in the parade passing out campaign literature. I agree that anyone has a right to have a private parade and have whoever they want in it. I went to help kill millions of Vietnamese to protect such rights. Our soldiers have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans to assure such rights. Our government is arming the dictatorships of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, as we armed Saddam, to protect such rights. What I feel put upon about is entering into a contract, spending money and time in expectation the other parties were honorable and fulfill their contractual obligations and then they do not. That this was a private function is open to question. I was told by the Tallahassee Police Department that all documents relating to such parades were secret and not subject to Florida’s Sunshine law or public review. I disagree, but until these secret documents are reviewed, no one will know if this was private or government activity. Your editorial said have our own parade. I was also told that, there are no written procedures for granting or denying parade permits, which means they are granted based on some bureaucrat's decision. Do you seriously think we could get a Veterans Day march permit? Talk About an Exit Strategy - Veterans for Peace Yanked from Vet Parade By JACK McCARTHY November 13, 2003 In his bland story on the annual downtown Veterans Day parade, sponsored by Veterans of Foreign War, Tallahassee Democrat/Knight Ridder reporter Gerald Ensley, strives for the local Mayberry touch. "On a warm November day, Tallahassee threw a Veterans Day parade celebration that produced smiles from all who attended." Well, not quite everyone. Take parade chairman, Korean war vet Ken Conroy. Please. According to Florida Times Union reporter J. Taylor Rushing who witnessed this most dramatic un-Mayberry moment, the Tallahassee chapters of Veterans for Peace and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, were literally "yanked" from the from the parade line by Tallahassee police. Apparently at the behest of chairman Ken. Talk about an exit strategy! Adding even more old south Mayberry irony to the whole scene, the marching vets, who as the V- Day cant has it, "paid the price"-- and were supposedly the subject of the celebration-- were "yanked" for the subversive act of passing out leaflets explaining why they opposed the Iraq war. Talk about helping Saddam and Bin Laden. Cowardly Conroy took the low road and blamed the police. He also kindly offered to refund the dissenting vets their $10.00 registration fee. Conroy, while admitting that he found the protesting vets "offensive" told Rushing, the "Tallahassee police wanted them removed." (No wonder we lost the Korean war.) TPD Sgt. David Folsom who was in charge of security at the parade denied it. Conroy and the police, however, graciously allowed the banned vets to leaflets on the sidewalks. "They can have their free speech, just not in the parade," parade czar Ken declared. The day before the parade the Tallahassee Democrat reported that the Leon County Sheriffs office had announced the formation of a new, homeland security inspired "intelligence unit" which would monitor suspicious groups or individuals. As PFC Gomer Pyle might put it, "Shazzam." Jack McCarthy lives in Tallahassee, Florida. He can be reached at: jackm32301(at)yahoo.com From Tom Baxter Wed, 19 Nov 2003 3 items item 1 My comments item 2 My public records request item 3 My response to the the response to my public records request item 1 Many people showed up for the parade that I never saw. So, if you did, get back to me. You plus, those that I did see will have a voice in the settlement. This is to find those folks and will be the last mailing to the list on this topic. I will include updates on the general mailings. I've come to the conclusion that the Tallahassee 2003 Veterans Day parade was a "official city event" and our First Amendment rights were violated "under the color of state law," which means, just as they should have served that cup of coffee, they should have let us march. You can request see the records I requested at TPD office on 7th Avenue. Don't tell them who you are. No ID. No nothing just tell them what you want to see. Before you go ... As the courts of Florida have ruled:
item 2 14NOV03 Sargent Folsom Tallahassee Police Department Public Records Request under Florida's Sunshine Law Sargent Folsum, Please provide copies of all documents relating to the application for and approval of the 2003 Veterans Day Parade. Also, please provide a copy of the polices and/or procedures for parade permits, including but limited to the department's standards for approval and disapproval. Enclosed is my check number #6136 in the amount of $20.00 to serve as a deposit for copying costs. I will stop by the front desk Monday afternoon to pick up and pay for these documents or to receive your written response concerning their exemption from the Sunshine Law and/or their non-existence. At this time I will bring additional funds to cover any additional costs or provide exact change. Tom Baxter, Citizen cc Walter A. McNeil Rick Courtemanche item 3 Rick Coutremanche Police Legal Adviser City of Tallahassee Thank you for your letter of 17NOV03 in response to my Public Records request. The reason I prepared the request was I was told by someone at TPD that the records concerning parades were not Public Records and there were no written procedures on parade permit granting or denial. It is good to hear the records are public and written procedures do exist. This impresses me almost as much as your looking up my full legal name and home address, which, I deliberately not provide in my request. I hope the research did not slow the copying of the records. This makes me nostalgic for the COINITELPRO and “Gainesville 8" days. Ah, but COINTELPRO is back, Ashcroft suspended the rules ending it. As you said “Public Records Law is clear that agencies have a reasonable amount of time to provide these records.” In fact the Florida Supreme Court was a little more definitive saying the time allowed is “the limited reasonable time allowed the custodian to retrieve the record and delete those portions of the record the custodian asserts are exempt.” The reason I’m making this request is to determine whether Tallahassee’s Veterans Day Parade 2003 was private or public event. I believe it was an official City of Tallahassee sponsored event as the city provided many services to the parade at no cost to Mr. Conroy. Mr. Conroy, “under the color of state law” using the threat of having us arrested, refused to honor our contract for a place in the parade, due to his personal dislikes. I have recommended that Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War accept a settlement agreement that includes four points: 1.
An apology for violation of our First Amendment Rights. 2. A guarantee that Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War will have a spot in the 2004 veterans day parade. 3. The City of Tallahassee buy ads in the local papers, including the Democrat, Capitol Outlook, FAMUAN, FSUView, Talon and the Apalachee tortoise to let our suppressed message be made public, i.e., HONOR THE WARRIOR, NOT THE WAR; SUPPORT OUR TROOPS BRING THEM HOME and the contents of our flyers, which are articles by Medal of Honor recipients, Charlie Liteky and Paul Bucha. [See links below.] 4. A display at City Hall with our suppressed message. Challenging the Hand that Destiny Deal Paul Bucha 30 JUL 2003 Full text is available here An Open Letter to the U.S. Military Charlie Liteky in Baghdad 07 May 2003 Here's letters that were published about the City of Tallahassee's 2003 Veterans Day Parade. Letters to the Editor 20NOV03 Vets couldn't have exited a parade they weren't in Re: "Veterans war with each other over Iraq war" (Letters, Nov. 14). Letter writer Suzanne Debolt has evidently forgotten the good that the Veterans of Foreign Wars does for this community. But in her zeal to condemn, she has dreamed up a story that made me sure it was some other parade she was talking about. First, Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War did not get into the parade - not one step. Second, they did not march for 20 minutes. Third, they could not have been pulled off the street and out of a parade that they never marched in. Before you condemn, at least get your facts straight. I put on this parade so veterans could honor veterans. There was no place in it for political platforms. It was not the time neither the place. KEN CONROY Parade chairman Veterans of Foreign Wars Sent by Tom 21NOV03 Not yet published Fellow veteran Ken Conroy is memory selective when he says, “Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War did not get into the parade - not one step.” What he failed to say was his threats of arrest kept them out. We came to the assembly point as per our contract with him. There he told us he was going to dishonor his word and cancel our contract to march. Mr Conroy errs when he states the 2003 City of Tallahassee Veterans Day Parade was “his.” This would imply that the city did not provide thousands of dollars worth of tax paid services gratis to the parade. Mr. Conroy’s statement “There was no place in it for political platforms. It was not the time neither the place.” shows again, his memory is selective. He forget the contingent that wore “Elect Bev Kilmer” t-shirts and had “Bush/Cheney” posters prominently displayed Tom Baxter Letters to the editor 13NOV03 Only vets who support Iraq war were allowed to march This year was my first Veterans Day parade - the first parade I planned to march in, along with two veterans' groups. I was somewhat excited and somewhat anxious to be marching in a parade with veterans, men and women of whom we ask the ultimate sacrifice to safeguard our way of life. But we did not march. We were censored. We were told we could not march in the parade, especially not in a Veterans Day parade. The point of contention seemed to be the banner on which was written the names of the two groups we represented: Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against The War. Apparently the parade marshal took exception with the word "against." The fact that the people carrying the banner were veterans seemed only to offend him further. Funny, I did not know that only veterans who supported the war were allowed to participate. I did not know that the primary credential for participation was not whether you had served your country, but whether you supported the war against Iraq. I did not know that risking one's life for one's country was not good enough for participation in a Veterans Day parade. When we start silencing our veterans, what sort of democracy can we claim to have? What are we fighting for? MARIE A. BAILEY 14NOV03 Letters to the editor Veterans war with each other over Iraq war On Veterans Day in Boston, Tallahassee and elsewhere, the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars displayed a brutish attitude toward other veterans and a disgraceful disrespect for the Constitution. American Legion vets and VFW vets essentially spit on fellow veterans, refusing to allow them to participate in the Veterans Day parade and denouncing them for opposing the Iraq war. In Tallahassee, they yanked members of Veterans For Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War off a downtown street directly in front of the Old Capitol as they marched in the parade in which they were legitimately registered, and for carrying signs saying "Support the warrior, not the war." Charles LeCroy, second vice commander of American Legion Post 13 in Tallahassee, said, "We don't care where they are, as long as they're somewhere else." Boston Veterans for Peace was allowed to march unannounced in the city's parade, then later insulted by Arthur Smith, past department commander of the Massachusetts American Legion, who said: "We do not consider them true veterans." Smith and LeCroy and their American Legion and VFW cohort denied other veterans - who served alongside them in Vietnam, Korea, and Gulf War I - their rights on a day Americans are supposed to be honoring all veterans for their sacrifice to uphold the constitutional right to dissent. That's not what true Americans stand for. SUZANNE DEBOLT 15NOV03 Promoting freedom abroad, degrading it at home After the Veterans Day parade, my wife and I ran into an acquaintance who explained to us that the Veterans for Peace organization was not in the parade. We had expected to see members of Veterans for Peace in the parade, but only saw them walking down the sidewalk with their banner before the parade started. Veterans for Peace had properly registered and paid their fees, fashioned banners and appeared at the appropriate time and place to participate, but were denied their lawful right to participate because their banners were not acceptable to the parade's grand marshal. The banners read, "Honor the warrior, not the war" and "Support our troops, bring them home." I am saddened and angry that the Veterans for Peace, all veterans who served their country, were denied their constitutional right to free speech on the very same day we were supposedly honoring them. In today's culture of fear, we are expected to keep out mouths shut because it is unseemly to disagree with our elected officials. Are we purporting to promote our country's values abroad while degrading our rights at home? I think we are, and Tallahassee's Veterans Day parade is a perfect example. M. QUILLEN Posted on Wed, Nov. 12, 2003 Tallahassee parade celebrates veterans Significance of 'day off' upheld By Gerald Ensley DEMOCRAT SENIOR WRITER Linda Weber brought her two sons to the Veterans Day parade Tuesday in downtown Tallahassee. She wanted Robby, 10, and Brandon, 8, to understand "why they were having a day off from school." It worked. "We came out to celebrate all the people who have served our country in the Army, the Air Force and the Coast Guard," said Robby, a fourth-grader. "It makes me feel pretty good." Join the crowd, Robby. On a gorgeous, warm November day, Tallahassee threw a Veterans Day celebration that produced proud smiles from all who attended. The celebration began with a morning parade down Monroe Street, slid over to the Museum of Florida History for an annual massing of the colors ceremony and the groundbreaking for a new World War II memorial, then concluded with the rededication of the longtime Blue Star Highway program. The ceremonies drew a smaller crowd than in recent years. Tallahassee Police Department Sgt. David Folsom estimated Tuesday's crowd at 6,000 people - down from the previous two years when 8,000 to 10,000 spectators attended the first two post-Sept. 11 Veterans Day parades. But many communities this year canceled Veterans Day parades because of a lack of military vehicles and manpower as reserve and National Guard units had been sent overseas to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. But Tallahassee's organizers, Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 3308, forged on. They supplemented a small supply of jeeps and troop carriers - provided by members of the local Military Vehicles Preservation Association - with more high-school bands and ROTC units, Boy Scout and Girl Scout troops, classic-car clubs, Shriners and floats full of veterans and families of soldiers serving in Iraq. "It was smaller," agreed Folsom, TPD's special-events coordinator. "But the good weather brought a lot of people out. This was more of a respect (for veterans) thing than a show parade." Indeed, many of the spectators who lined Monroe Street from Call Street to Gaines Street talked warmly about their country. Becki Coates, a music teacher at Canopy Oaks Elementary, wore a colorful T-shirt in which the words of the U.S. Constitution weave among the furls of a U.S. flag. She clapped along enthusiastically with every patriotic song. "I think Sept. 11 certainly had an impact," Coates said. "I think people now are more willing to stand up and say they're proud to be Americans. They want to support the troops and support the things our ancestors fought for." Ulysses Lawrence, who spent 14 years in the U.S. Marines and now works for a City Hall cleaning crew, agreed. "Parades like this are important because they keep people interested in what's going on," said Lawrence, as he waved a small flag. "It's good for people to show their appreciation for veterans, especially when a war is going on. Having been a Marine, it makes me feel good about my service." A year from now, the state of Florida will have a permanent Florida memorial to World War II veterans. As part of Tuesday's celebration, the state Department of Veterans Affairs held a groundbreaking for a Florida World War II memorial on the grounds of the R.A. Gray Building, which houses the Museum of Florida History. The memorial's centerpiece will be a replica of the 19-foot-tall Florida pillar that will be part of the national World War II monument that opens in May in Washington D.C. The Florida memorial will be joined by a permanent exhibit about World War II at the Museum of Florida History and a statewide World War II trail, identifying military bases that existed during the war. "It's great there's going to be a permanent memorial," said Shelly Navarro, who attended Tuesday's events with her parents, Mary and Walter Taylor; her father served in Europe during World War II. "What (World War II veterans) did is what gave us the freedoms we have today." The day was not without a bit of controversy. Two local groups, Veterans for Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War, had entered the parade. But when the groups showed up Tuesday morning, VFW parade marshal Ken Conroy refused to allow them to march. "We just can't have this problem," Conroy said. "Half the (participants in the parade) said they don't want to be in the parade with (the protesters), and I don't blame them." The antiwar veterans instead held up banners along the parade route, expressing their opposition to the war in Iraq. The slogan of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, which counts about 35 members, is "Support the warrior, not the war." "We're not anti-veteran," said organizer Bob Broedel, a Vietnam veteran. "We just think soldiers who are supposed to protect us from the next Adolf Hitler are being used to overthrow countries on the basis of lies." Some veterans agreed with the protesters. "I appreciate their message," said veteran Glenn Salsburg, 80, who served in World War II. "I think, from what we're reading now, that we were premature in starting this war. It's not un-American, it's not unpatriotic to say what (the group) is saying: 'Honor the warrior, not the war.'" Other veterans thought a Veterans Day parade was the wrong venue for that message. "Everybody has the right to freedom of speech," said Patrick Brown, a Vietnam veteran who directs the Rickards High Army ROTC unit. "But there is a time and a place for everything. And this is just not the time and place." Last modified Wed., November 12, 2003 - 12:23 PM Originally created Wednesday, November 12, 2003 Anti-Iraq war veterans pulled from parade By J. TAYLOR RUSHING Capital Bureau Chief TALLAHASSEE -- A group of 30 military veterans critical of the war in Iraq hoped to use Tuesday's Veterans Day parade to call attention to the increasingly deadly conflict but instead found themselves fighting for something much more fundamental. Members of Veterans For Peace and Vietnam Veterans Against the War were yanked off a downtown Tallahassee street, directly in front of the Old Capitol, while marching in the holiday parade they had legitimately registered in. As organizers allowed the parade to roll on -- including veterans from various wars, several high school marching bands and even a group of young women from the local Hooters restaurant -- the anti-war veterans were ordered onto sidewalks where they passed out leaflets and displayed a banner reading, "Honor the Warrior, Not the War." "There's a war going on that's based on lies, just like Vietnam," said veteran Tom Baxter, an Army equipment maintenance officer in Vietnam for 16 months in 1967-69. "They were lying then, and they're lying now." Parade chairman Ken Conroy, a Korean War veteran, said he ejected the anti-war veterans because they were offensive and because Tallahassee police also wanted them removed. He offered to refund their $10 registration fee and said he was not suppressing the group's free speech rights. "They can have their free speech, just not in the parade," Conroy said. "They belong on the sidewalk." The six-block parade circling downtown Tallahassee was sponsored by the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 3308. Baxter said about 12 of the 30 anti-war members at the parade were walking in line when they were kicked out about 20 minutes into the hourlong event. He said the parade applications were filled out fully and correctly but must have gone unnoticed by organizers. "They said we were offensive, but we heard no boos or anything," he said. "A few harsh looks from some of the active-duty guys, but that's about it." Tallahassee police Sgt. David Folsom denied police played any role in the situation and said Tuesday was the first time he could recall anyone being excluded from the parade. "We don't police the participants," Folsom said. "We don't have an opinion on who's in it, as long as they're not walking around naked or drinking in public. It's just not a police decision." Parade spectators were surprised to hear the anti-war veterans were ejected. "I don't think it's right," said LaToya Jackson, a JROTC member from Rickards High School. "They said they were supporting the troops, just not the war." Marc and Khristina Munday of Tallahassee suggested the veterans have earned a special right to have their voices heard. "They were in Vietnam, which may or may not have been a just war," Marc Munday said. "And quite a few people feel the way they do about the war in Iraq. They shouldn't have been kicked out of the parade. America is about free speech." But others said the anti-war veterans simply didn't belong. "We don't care where they are, as long as they're somewhere else," said Charles LeCroy, an Air Force personnel superintendent in Vietnam and second vice commander of American Legion Post 13 in Tallahassee. "It's disrespectful, that's what it is, and I just can't stomach or tolerate or conceive of it." According to casualty records from the Associated Press, a total of 393 Americans have died in Iraq since March 20. Col. Michael Spak, a retired colonel in the U.S. Army reserves and professor at the Chicago-Kent College of Law, noted the U.S. Supreme Court considers free speech less protected at privately sponsored events than those that are held publicly. "The court has held they can't stop you from picketing, but they can stop you from marching in a private parade," Spak said. "There's a difference. If it's a city event, that's one thing, But if it's private, they have a right to bar a group." jt.rushingjacksonville.com, (850) 224-7515, ext. 11 |
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